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3D printed TOHs and ambience
  • flypigflypig
    39.00 KarmaPosts: 22Crew
    I've just set up a page for buying 3D printed TOHs from Shapeways. However, because of the way Shapeways does things (i.e. they print and ship direct to the buyer) there are no NFC tags/ambiences with the covers. I'm interested to know whether people think this is a problem. Would it be better to offer NFC tags that people can buy separately to add to the covers? I appreciate the tab/ambience functionality is neat, but is it something that's really important?

    Here's the page in case anyone's interested!: http://www.flypig.co.uk/toh/
  • ratedrated
    237.00 KarmaPosts: 65Crew
    Personally I don't think it's overly important (but is a nice addition). I've ordered one of the blank TOH's to tweak so thank you for the link.

    I will likely look into the process of creating my own NFC tag as I intend on modifying it somewhat.
  • flypigflypig
    39.00 KarmaPosts: 22Crew
    Thanks for the feedback, and for ordering the TOH. I'd be really interested to know what you end up with after your modifications. Did you have something specific in mind?

    I'm not sure whether it's helpful to know, but it looked to me like getting hold of the NFC tags wouldn't be hard. For example, the following ought to do the trick based on the TOH developer documents Jolla released (although I've not yet tried): http://rapidnfc.com/item/119/clear_nfc_tags_ntag203_midas
  • ratedrated
    237.00 KarmaPosts: 65Crew
    Long term my intentions can be found in this thread: http://www.jollatides.com/forums/discussion/168/new-work-in-progress-will-be-updated-toh-with-interchangeable-camera-lenses

    But for now I'm just trying to get to grips with the potentials of TOH so the one I've ordered is to be one to mess around with. I'll probably start off with playing NFC capabilities before moving on to any kind of physical alterations.
  • flypigflypig
    39.00 KarmaPosts: 22Crew
    Thanks! It looks like really great things you're doing, and I'd have thought the perfect application for TOHs. You're getting great results by the look of it too.

    Adding space for a metal ring as you suggest in one of your posts could potentially be quite straightforward. If you decide to go down that route, give me a shout if you think I can help by modifying the design (I'm sure you could do it yourself, but the offer is there if it saves you time).
  • JollaTidesJollaTides
    668.00 KarmaPosts: 526Captain
    Nice work @flypig - I've just tweeted links to your TOH site. They look great for experimenting on to make some custom other halves. :-)
  • flypigflypig
    39.00 KarmaPosts: 22Crew
    Thanks @JollaTides! I saw your tweet and have just retweeted :) I think you're right: these are good TOHs to build on, and if someone wants some specific changes I'd be happy to help with that (not that I'm a CAD expert or anything, but small changes should be straightforward).
    Post edited by flypig at 2014-06-27 11:58:01
  • JollaTidesJollaTides
    668.00 KarmaPosts: 526Captain
    Sounds good @flypig I've also given these a mention on our blog: http://www.jollatides.com/2014/06/27/other-half-printed-covers-from-e14-42-pp/
  • flypigflypig
    39.00 KarmaPosts: 22Crew
    Thanks for doing that @JollaTides; it's exciting to see them mentioned, and I hope people like them enough to give them a go.
  • ratedrated
    237.00 KarmaPosts: 65Crew
    Mine has arrived and is very nice indeed. I'm currently hunting for some nice metallic paint (I went for the clear white) and will begin playing around with NFC shortly.

    Definitely recommend the product though. Very cool.
  • flypigflypig
    39.00 KarmaPosts: 22Crew
    Really glad you like it @rated :) It would be great if you could post up photos of the painted version once it's done, and about your experiences with NFC. I've not tried metalic paint and would love to see the results. Either way, I hope it comes out well!
  • JollaTidesJollaTides
    668.00 KarmaPosts: 526Captain
    +1 from me would love to see some more custom other halves! :-)
  • Macilaci457Macilaci457
    5.00 KarmaPosts: 3Crew
    It would be nice if electronics developers could get a kit that allows fast prototyping. Currently there is no such thing. An I2C breakout TOH would be needed. Giving connection to the expansion pins and providing a flat cable output to connect protoboard.
  • Macilaci457Macilaci457
    5.00 KarmaPosts: 3Crew
    Thanks, I have just ordered mine in blue colour! Takes a while to get, but Im in no hurry.
  • JollaTidesJollaTides
    668.00 KarmaPosts: 526Captain
    Nice @Macilaci457 I've also been eyeing up the blue one - be sure to start a new post if you decide to make something! :-D
  • GrimtechGrimtech
    69.00 KarmaPosts: 36Crew
    @flypig Nice work, perfect.

    Could you make a half with a camera protector bump, and a strip at the bottom of the case the same raised height to allow the phone to sit flat on the table?
    My old i8910 had a lovely protector around the lens that is 2mm tall. A smoothed and rounded rectangular bump across the bottom of the case 2mm tall would level the back of the phone out.

    Images in this link will explain better!!!

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cz1156w81s9azwe/AADkX7ToO_uN1lTCp0ir0NQha

    If you can do this, I would be interested in a couple of white ones to paint.


    Thanks!
    Post edited by Grimtech at 2014-07-10 18:55:55
  • flypigflypig
    39.00 KarmaPosts: 22Crew
    Thanks for the suggestion @Grimtech. Is this the sort of thing you mean (see picture)?



    Is the main reason for the bumps to prevent the lens getting scratched?

    CameraProtector.png
    1920 x 1080 - 293K
    Post edited by flypig at 2014-07-10 20:28:54
  • GrimtechGrimtech
    69.00 KarmaPosts: 36Crew
    Hey @Flypig, that's the sort of thing yes.
    To my mind both details are broader, and a " smoothed feature.

    Yes they are to prevent lens scratching, whilst keeping the phone still able to lay flat on the table.
    I was thinking the ridge around the lens and flash, and the lower strip being around 6mm wide and 2mm high.

    The out side edge of the of the lens protector being gently smoothed into the flat back. And the inside edge being a angular 45 degree.

    The strip being a gently smoothed into the flat back on all sides.

    The centralised positioning of both features is exactly as I imagined.

    I wish I could use CAD!!

    Thank You!!

  • flypigflypig
    39.00 KarmaPosts: 22Crew
    Hi @Grimtech, thanks for the feedback. I had a play around with the design to try to better match your description. This includes the 2mm/6mm dimensions. Here's the new picture.

    Unfortunately because of the relatively small gap between the camera and the edge of the case I wasn't able to make the bumps smoother than this without reducing the height from 2mm. What do you think though?

    I wish I could use CAD better, but I'm a real amateur, so I'm sorry if I'm not able to capture what you had in mind!
  • GrimtechGrimtech
    69.00 KarmaPosts: 36Crew
    @Flypig
    Wow, the camera bump is exactly what I am after and trying to explain!!

    Sorry to be picky....
    Could you do one that has the latest version camera bump, with the first version's rectangular lower bump?

    That would be perfect!

    If you can, I would like to order 2 of them in white please.

    Thanks!
  • JollaTidesJollaTides
    668.00 KarmaPosts: 526Captain
    That's a nice practical design to ward off lens scratches like you say. Perhaps you could consider the size of the "camera bump" diameter so that it still could work with add-on 3rd party lenses like the ones @rated was experimenting with: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4in1-FishEye-Wide-Angle-Micro-Telephoto-Camera-Lens-for-Galaxy-S5-S4-Note-3-2-/161348558708?pt=UK_Mobiles_Accessories_RL&hash=item25911f9f74

    These type lenses are applied with a self adhesive magnetic ring that would work fine with Jolla.

    Some of the dimensions I found of the lenses/ring were as follows:

    Dimensions(main body): 15.8mm (diameter) x 6.5mm (length)
    Dimensions (magnetic ring): 13.06 (outer), 9.38 (innner)

    As long as your camera bump diameter exceeded the maximum diameter at the base of the lenses it would be fine although you would probably have to make 1 single large circular bump that encompassed both the lens and led flash.

    Anyway, it was just a thought to allow the option and make the OH more "camera" centric.
    Post edited by JollaTides at 2014-07-11 11:07:30
  • flypigflypig
    39.00 KarmaPosts: 22Crew
    @Grimtech

    I'm glad it's getting closer. I tried it out with the bump/stand combination you suggested, but eventually had second thoughts about that stand I'm afraid. The stand part was curved lengthways which I think would have left the phone unstable when placed on a flat surface, which would have defeated the purpose somewhat.

    After a bit more experimentation, I came up with the following:

    Design
    Render

    This stand is much more rectangular, which I think is likely to be more practical (and also closer to your original). Can I ask what you think about this?
  • flypigflypig
    39.00 KarmaPosts: 22Crew
    @JollaTides

    I like the idea of allowing for the specialised lenses @rated was looking at. That link is was also really helpful; thanks!

    The lens on the Jolla is quite near the top of the phone, but there's still just about room to allow for the bump and the magnetic ring. Here's a screenshot of a possible design.

    The darker grey area represents the metallic ring for the magnet to attach to (inner 9.38mm, outer 13.06mm). The red area represents the clearance apparently needed for the lens (16mm diameter).

    What do you think? I've never used these lenses myself, so it's difficult for me to judge whether this would be any good. I love your idea of a more camera-centric cover though.
    cameraprotector06.png
    1920 x 1080 - 297K
  • JollaTidesJollaTides
    668.00 KarmaPosts: 526Captain
    @flypig That looks great - nice render - the taper on the "bumps" is also perfect for allowing both camera/flash more light and viewing angle.

    I suppose if something like this had some more demand/interest, we should confirm with @Rated to measure the base of the micro lenses just to ensure actual diameter (I/D & O/D) is correct. Or alternatively if anyone else has these lenses, some final confirmation would be great. I may well pick up a set as they look very reasonable for the price! :-)
  • ratedrated
    237.00 KarmaPosts: 65Crew
    I like where this is going!

    I/D = 8.3mm
    O/D = 13mm
  • flypigflypig
    39.00 KarmaPosts: 22Crew
    Thanks for the dimensions @rated. I tested them on the design (see the dark grey area in the photo below) and there's still room for a magnetic ring with those dimensions to fit. The main difference is the inside diameter, but this just about fits around the standard camera hole (hopefully this matches with your real-world experience too?).

    More good news is that I just heard back from Jolla this morning and they've kindly agreed for covers with this design to be made available (thank you Pasi!).
    cameraprotector07.png
    654 x 402 - 47K
  • GrimtechGrimtech
    69.00 KarmaPosts: 36Crew
    @flypig

    The design and Render you posted are perfect.

    The lower "stand" is fine and looks like it will keep the phone flat on the table just great.

    How do I order them in this design please?
    I would like a Yellow one and a Blue one at the moment please - I will wait until I have time in the winter to try painting one.

    Thanks!


  • flypigflypig
    39.00 KarmaPosts: 22Crew
    @Grimtech, sorry for the delay in posting more news. I've uploaded the model to Shapeways and it's passed the initial 'printability checks'. You can see the initial page here: http://shpws.me/vivH

    However, this isn't any guarantee that it'll come out okay, and I wouldn't normally make it available for sale until I've got some test prints done. Because of this I've not yet made it available to buy.

    If you'd like to take the risk I can make it available and you'd be welcome to order prints. However in this case I'm afraid I can't give any assurance about the result. If you're happy to wait I'll get myself a test print first (probably a few weeks) and let you know.

    It's your call! If you're happy to take the risk, let me know and I can make it available for you.
  • JollaTidesJollaTides
    668.00 KarmaPosts: 526Captain
    Nice render there @flypig! I suppose someone needs to be an 'alpha' tester for the first prototype but otherwise everything looks in order as long as the camera/led 'holes' are all aligned correctly.

    Out of interest, what grade sand paper would you use to get a smooth finish on these 3d prints as I'm assuming they come out from the printer with a coarse/slightly rough finish ?
  • JollaTidesJollaTides
    668.00 KarmaPosts: 526Captain
    Also I've been thinking how to make the design even more interesting... how easy would it be to include an N900 style landscape kickstand into the design ?

    Obviously you would have to design a separate part for the stand itself and make appropriate raised side holes on the rear of the cover so that the kick stand could be fitted in place.
  • flypigflypig
    39.00 KarmaPosts: 22Crew
    I like the idea of the foldable kickstand (as an ex-N900 user myself I know exactly what you mean). With a bit of good design, it's possible it could even be printed without the need for assembly, since the printers can even print interlocking moving parts (it seems astonishing to me, but apparently true). However, this may be a bit beyond my design capabilities I'm afraid. I'll give it some thought and play around with it and see what happens!

    In terms of sandpaper, I'd actually advise against this, especially for the coloured prints. I tried it myself and it took off a layer of colour, showing white underneath and ruining the even colouring. It wasn't a good look! The prints are polished by Shapeways, so although they're still rough compared to the Jolla originals, they're not bad in my opinion. If you really want a smooth finish, it would be better to get a white print and spray it. This has given some very good results in my experience.

    Unfortunately I don't have my sanded version with me here, but as soon as I can I'll post a picture up to show what I mean.
  • JollaTidesJollaTides
    668.00 KarmaPosts: 526Captain
    @flypig ah ok thanks for confirmation - that's good shapeways polish it though so they probably won't be as coarse as I had first imagined.

    Yes, 3d technology is quite incredible and I appreciate that the kickstand design is probably another level of engineering/design but would be great for adding an extra USP to this idea. A built in kickstand would be great IMO and actually with some clever thinking perhaps one stand could be designed to offer either portrait or landscape functionality. :)
  • GrimtechGrimtech
    69.00 KarmaPosts: 36Crew
    @Flypig,

    Hey, go on then. My curiosity has gotten the better of me!
    I will order a single yellow "camera hump" version to see how it fits and works please.

    http://www.shapeways.com/model/2234459/the-other-side-camera-protector-for-jolla-phone.html?li=shortUrl

    After your hard work drawing it and listening to my descriptions, it only seems fair!
    Thanks
  • flypigflypig
    39.00 KarmaPosts: 22Crew
    @Grimtech, sorry for the delay in getting back to you, but it's great that you're willing to take the plunge :-)

    Your design is available in yellow direct from Shapeways. Here's the link:

    http://www.shapeways.com/model/2234459/the-other-side-camera-protector-for-jolla-phone.html?modelId=2234459&materialId=93

    I've ordered one for myself and they've approximated a 7th August print date. You're welcome to wait to find out how it turns out if you prefer not to take the risk, but I leave that entirely up to you! If you do make a print, please let us know how it turns out.

    If our prints are okay, I'll add it to the website for others to buy!

    This morning I also received a consignment of camera lenses (fish-eye, macro, telephoto) to test out as suggested by @rated and @JollaTides (thank you both!). As soon as the print arrives to test these with I'll post up some photos and thoughts about how well they work together.
  • JollaTidesJollaTides
    668.00 KarmaPosts: 526Captain
    Nice @flypig and looking forward to hear/see how the lens/new OH you designed work together! (we expect pics or it didn't happen! j/k) :-D
  • flypigflypig
    39.00 KarmaPosts: 22Crew
    Sorry for the delay, but the Shapeways prints finally arrived. Here's the photo to prove it happened!:

    http://www.flypig.co.uk/toh/images/cameraprotector.jpg

    Both versions seem to work well and the one with the gap leaves plenty of space for clever lenses to be attached. Given there don't seem to be any obvious issues with them I've made the prints generally available and added them to the products page, with due credit to @Grimtech (hope that's okay?):

    http://www.flypig.co.uk/toh/specials.html#cameraprotector

    As always I'd be interested in everyone's thoughts. I've also been thinking hard about a possible kickstand design, but this still needs a lot of work I'm afraid.
  • JollaTidesJollaTides
    668.00 KarmaPosts: 526Captain
    They look awesome @flypig! :D
  • MALEK95120MALEK95120
    1.00 KarmaPosts: 1Crew
    @flypig That looks awesome! How many days I have to wait before I got my 3D printed item in Shapeways?
    Post edited by MALEK95120 at 2014-08-08 11:49:41
  • flypigflypig
    39.00 KarmaPosts: 22Crew
    Thanks @JollaTides and @MALEK95120 . I do think they came out nicely, thanks to the great input here on the forums and Shapeways' amazing service.

    Looking at my last three orders, Shapeways had a target to dispatch them in about 2 or 3 weeks. In fact they arrived quicker (between 7 and 10 working days). This apparently depends on the material, how busy they are and where it's shipping to:

    https://www.shapeways.com/materials/material-status (Strong & Flexible Polished material)
    https://www.shapeways.com/support/shipping
  • ratedrated
    237.00 KarmaPosts: 65Crew
    That looks stunning (love the purple) - order placed!
  • flypigflypig
    39.00 KarmaPosts: 22Crew
    Thanks @rated, I really appreciate you making the order and I hope you love it!

    Please post your thoughts when it arrives, especially if you see ways to improve it.
  • GrimtechGrimtech
    69.00 KarmaPosts: 36Crew
    @Flypig
    Sorry I have been away, summer time is very busy for me.

    I have ordered a blue and a yellow camera protector TOH from shapeways.

    Cant wait for them to arrive!

    Thanks
  • GrimtechGrimtech
    69.00 KarmaPosts: 36Crew
    @Flypig,
    I arrived back late last night from travelling with work and there was a Shapeways box waiting for me!
    The design and colours are perfect, but I have to say their fit is not very positive.
    The blue cover is pretty loose with no positive click of engagement, and already it has lifted off the phone when walking round the house with it in my pocket.
    The yellow is a little better fitting but not by much.
    The shape of the cover in terms of camera protection etc is perfect and exactly how I imaged.
    The ridge on across the bottom of the back of the camera makes holding the phone one-handed more positive, and the protective bump in no way effects the camera or flash operation.
    Jolla, if your reading this, please a camera protector on the Jolla2 device when its launched!!!!

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/bg7nfh31sw9z8vi/2014-08-30-2663.jpg?dl=0

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/d8yx06y4gag2ngf/2014-08-30-2664.jpg?dl=0

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/rpdi3y1m21v765a/2014-08-30-2665.jpg?dl=0
    2014-08-30-2663.jpg
    3840 x 2160 - 2M
    2014-08-30-2664.jpg
    3840 x 2160 - 2M
    2014-08-30-2665.jpg
    3840 x 2160 - 2M
  • flypigflypig
    39.00 KarmaPosts: 22Crew
    @Grimtech, thanks for the feedback. I'm glad the outside design seems okay (correct me if I misunderstood) but the bad fit is a disappointment. I'm sorry about that. The latches are the same as on the original Jolla case, and while my test prints didn't exhibit this issue, I know some other people have had the same problem.

    With help from others who contacted me about similar issues, I'm currently trying out a test that has deeper latches which I'm hoping will prevent this happening in future. Looking at the date you ordered, I think you should have received an email from Shapeways about this, but I apologise if you didn't.

    I'll drop you a personal message in case there's a way to fix this for you.
  • GrimtechGrimtech
    69.00 KarmaPosts: 36Crew
    @flypig
    Thanks for the messages and your work towards the MKII :)
  • ratedrated
    237.00 KarmaPosts: 65Crew
    I absolutely adore mine. It's a perfect fit and looks stunning.

    I shall post a photo once I've charged up my old N9 to do so....
  • JollaTidesJollaTides
    668.00 KarmaPosts: 526Captain
    @Grimtech @flypig Hopefully shapeways resolved this if the tolerances were slightly out or perhaps there is no comeback - not sure how returns work with them ?

    @rated Glad yours worked out good with the fit... no pressure, but any chance of that photo (need some more Jolla visual stimulation) ! :D

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