Pre-Order Delays Acknowledged By Jolla - Jolla General Talk Discussions on JollaTides Community Port

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It would appear as though Jolla have acknowledged they've had a few teething problems during the pre-order shipping process as tweeted by #JollaHQ:

We’ve had unplanned challenges in shipping. We’re truly sorry for the delay; working 24/7 on the shipments.
— Jolla (@JollaHQ)
December 10, 2013

But the good news is they seem to be on track for sending out all European pre-orders this week:

@Florian_Si @JaarkDS @qrosh @HelinaT @SimoRuoho @JujuDHighlands EU shipments go out this week, please stay tuned. Thanks for your support.
— Jolla (@JollaHQ)
December 10, 2013

It seems a few people have been on their case on twitter lately, understandably frustrated by the lack of movement with the pre-orders, but I have faith that they will stick to their original plan (delivery 3-4 weeks from payment) - is anyone else feeling a little bit upset or are you managing to remain calm under the circumstances?

WilliePre · Post edited by WilliePre at 2013-12-10 15:34:04

Great news, just saw the Tweet from Mark Dillon. Jolla Sailors, best of luck and thanks fo the update.

blitzschlag

hey, at least 2nd wave preorders from finland have a chance to pick up their phone in the dna shops by tomorrow...

i'm just upset that the companys PR felt no need to communicate. Communication is crucible.

If i'd have to make the choice again i'd surely would not spent any bucks until the phone would be commonly accessible. There is just no point in getting the Phones to Finnish ppl first. First come, first serve.

WilliePre

WilliePre said:
Great news, just saw the Tweet from Mark Dillon. Jolla Sailors, best of luck and thanks fo the update.

Check cybette's post on http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91913 on their efforts to get our devices out the door.

Faz

@blitzschlag Couldn't have put it better!
First impressions can never be undone.
I completely understand that best made plans can always go wrong etc. Things will always go wrong from time to time. For me it's how we go about addressing the wrongs that speaks volumes and where communication is absolutely key.

Let's just hope the device, together with much better communication going forward, helps us quickly forget about this time.

I've had such itchy fingers waiting I just bought me an N950! lol! :)

andreibechet

To be honest I do not understand why people from the 2nd preorder wave need to be served when there are still people from 1st wave who have payed 100/40EUR up front how many months ago?
Anyways, it would have been better if they would communicate a bit more. I think that we are too unlike any other customer community.

JollaTides

@cybette posted earlier for us here too in the other thread incase anyone hadn't noticed: /forums/discussion/82/the-grand-shipping-status-thread#Item_29

blitzschlag

yeah, but its not official jolla and really no further Information in her post.

And i don't like the sweet and fancy Marketing Words that are used in it.
It really makes me feel sad to be treated like that.

JollaTides

I think Carol was coming at it having seen what's going on both sides of the fence.

Personally, I have been waiting for 1.5yrs for this and invested a lot of time, money and energy of my own free will - out of a burning passion to see MeeGo reborn and a viable alternative for us all who are sick of being spoonfed IOS/Android etc.

Surprisingly maybe, to wait a few more days is ok for me and I've accepted this, even though I should be shouting and screaming from the rooftops along with some others.

The fact is, I know that shouting won't get me anywhere BECAUSE, every bit of extra work I give Jolla to respond to is one less person who would otherwise be packaging up my precious Jolla.

I totally understand the annoyance, frustration, bitterness felt, but would suggest that for a welcome distraction, there are far more important things in the world to expend energy on.

Feel free to vent if it helps though and let's keep our heads up and look forward to some positive news this week. :-)

Just my 2 cents...

andreibechet

Right on dude. We do need some positive thinking here instead of building up frustration levels (which i have also been doing and i appologize for that).

JollaTides

@andreibechet

Don't apologise my friend, it's totally understandable everyone's just excited and passionate and it's really hard when things don't quite go as you hope.

cybette

blitzschlag said:
yeah, but its not official jolla and really no further Information in her post.

And i don't like the sweet and fancy Marketing Words that are used in it.
It really makes me feel sad to be treated like that.

Sweet fancy marketing words? Wow the Jolla marketing team will be proud of me :D

Jokes aside, I'm sorry it makes you sad to be treated with sincerity, because I'm really just writing what I feel and experience. I'm not trained in Marketing, I was a developer for the most part of my career and recently working more with communities. Or maybe I should just work on my writing skills to avoid giving the wrong impression... :-#

Btw official Jolla response here - https://jolla.zendesk.com/entries/29762717-Webshop-FAQ

KnuX

Wasn't Portugal supposed to be on the first-to-get-Jolla list?

blitzschlag

cybette said:

Sweet fancy marketing words? Wow the Jolla marketing team will be proud of me :D

Jokes aside, I'm sorry it makes you sad to be treated with sincerity, because I'm really just writing what I feel and experience. I'm not trained in Marketing, I was a developer for the most part of my career and recently working more with communities. Or maybe I should just work on my writing skills to avoid giving the wrong impression... :-#

Btw official Jolla response here - https://jolla.zendesk.com/entries/29762717-Webshop-FAQ

Well, i'm sorry but as i'm no native speaker i 've learned that words like
- amazing individuals
- facing and overcoming incredible challenges
are big corporate marketing sugar! Intended or not.

I in no way wanted to insult or attack you personally but...

... I said it before and i say it again:

I'm just hurt and upset that those People that had trust and loaned Jolla their Money half a year ago and paid in full over 3 weeks ago just get what feels like a heartfelt "Fuck you" from Jolla. Those guys/gals are to be considered "Premium Customers" even if they already got a T-Shirt and will get a extra plastic Cover and a handwritten Note.
Those guys trusted Jolla and Jolla disappointed at least me with their lack of communication and the later added Finland first paradigm.
I for one wouldn't have loaned the money if i knew beforehand that i'm just a 2nd row Customer because i'm not from Finland. I loaned the money because i had trust, wanted to show love for a product that felt right and was under the impression that the paying pre-orders would be what's called "early adaptors".

If i got a mail last week or last friday that said "Sorry, we fucked up and your Phone will be late" then there would just be no problem. I understand having Problems.
But reading on DNA that even 2nd wave Finnish pre-orders have a chance to get a Phone today and my (and lots of other pre-order-loan customers) order status is still not shipped is really Jolla just saying "Thanks for your faith and money you moron!" and then afterwards get a lame 5 words on twitter on the issue by official Jolla.

Really, really poor. I'm really struck at how bad of Customer handling it can get to top what Jolla did.

blitzschlag

JollaTides said:

Personally, I have been waiting for 1.5yrs for this and invested a lot of time, money and energy of my own free will - out of a burning passion to see MeeGo reborn and a viable alternative for us all who are sick of being spoonfed IOS/Android etc.

Surprisingly maybe, to wait a few more days is ok for me and I've accepted this, even though I should be shouting and screaming from the rooftops along with some others.

its not about the extra wait. Its about lack of Communication and the news that anyone can get a hold of the jolla from today on by just going to a dna shop. Why pre-order, why paying months and weeks ago if anyone can buy it in the dna-shop without the hassle?

JollaTides said:

The fact is, I know that shouting won't get me anywhere BECAUSE, every bit of extra work I give Jolla to respond to is one less person who would otherwise be packaging up my precious Jolla.

sorry, but thats just nonsense. 5 Minutes Work last week and having a text on jolla.com saying "Sorry, we have troubles with logistics. Pre-Orders will probably be delayed" and noone would have shouted (as you call it). Or just a Standard eMail to all Customers (they did it for shop-invitation, couldn't have been too hard)

JollaTides said:

I totally understand the annoyance, frustration, bitterness felt, but would suggest that for a welcome distraction, there are far more important things in the world to expend energy on.

If i spend a considerable amount of money on a product or company i expect to be treated with respect. Be it amazon, the grocery store or Jolla.

technicus

Okay, so everyone who's dissapointed should come down.

@blitzschlag
I know you're pissed, so am i. It was a lack of communication.

But i can also understand @cybette 's point of view. She wrote " While transparency is important, we don't want to alarm people unnecessarily. - See more at: /forums/discussion/82/the-grand-shipping-status-thread#Item_34 ". I would have also made it this way. Sure they could say "Dear customers, maybe there will be a problem with the producer of our phones".
But you don't know which effects this would happen, especially for a young company! I don't know if Jolla is searching for some reseller or investores at this point, but trust me, something like this never looks good for investors or reseller.
Because they are saying "They have troubles now, so how will it be when we will sell it?"
And as far as i know, cybette please correct my if i say something wrong now, they had also some troubles to make it this far. But they managed it. And so i hope that they will manage this too!

Sure i am not happy about this situation, but that was also a result of my high expectations. And Jolla wrote in their Email "In order to secure your priority delivery during December..." so it's still 3 Weeks till yours could be shipped :)

And related to the DNA Finland thing: I guess that's the contract between Jolla and DNA. And if somebody is feeling treated unfairly, everyone fly to Helsinki and buy it in a DNA shop :)

KnuX · Post edited by KnuX at 2013-12-11 11:07:19

One of the things Jolla needs to improve -- A LOT -- is communication.
If they want to be seen like the small group of people they are, instead of the faceless corporation hiding behind a designer logo saying Jolla, they have to be more honest, more direct, and more timely.

Of course they probably don't notice because they are all over the place fighting fires: important bugs, shipment issues, etc.

But all of this can be solved with communication, with a "sorry, we screwed up". But it's up to Jolla to do it.

It's very similar as with what happened to Valve recently:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2013/11/02/valve-forgot-diretide-halloween-and-dota-2-fans-are-not-pleased/
but they turned it around quite nicely, I think
http://blog.dota2.com/2013/11/not-my-best-work/

If Jolla wants to be unlike, this is one of the important details. Samsung is just a huge faceless company, as is Google. I know that if I have an issue, nobody is ever going to listen to me. Well, it's time to decide if you're going to be like, or unlike :P

blitzschlag

technicus said:

But you don't know which effects this would happen, especially for a young company! I don't know if Jolla is searching for some reseller or investores at this point, but trust me, something like this never looks good for investors or reseller.
Because they are saying "They have troubles now, so how will it be when we will sell it?"

well, i'm certainly not a capitalist-investor or reseller but i can assure you that withheld and then somehow leaked information is far worse than honesty in times of twitter and the internet in general.

cybette

Thank you everyone for your comments!

I'm sorry for our slight screw up in shipping and the bigger screw up in lack of communication. We are learning and we will improve.

technicus said:

And as far as i know, cybette please correct my if i say something wrong now, they had also some troubles to make it this far. But they managed it. And so i hope that they will manage this too!

Thanks :) Yes, throughout this journey we have faced many problems, challenges and doubts. Critics who didn't think we could make it. At times even we ourselves wonder if we'd ever see the light at the end of the tunnel. And now we're here, launching, selling, shipping! Sure, there's much more work ahead and more stuff we can make better (software, hardware, communication...), and we're not stopping or even slowing down. Except maybe to take a minute and say THANK YOU ALL once again for your support and hope you continue to do so. This is not marketing speak, this comes from my heart. :love

Faz

Thanks @Cybette :)

I think it was good to mention your tech background in your earlier post. Some of us ~~stalkers~~ followers from talk meamo forum may already know this, but I believe its an important enough point worth highlighting and reminding periodically.

I remember when Jolla announced your appointment. I was very happy to hear it and definitely influenced my decision to pre-order, for the better of course. Choice excellent by Jolla management :)

Webby

I wish Jolla all the best, but I do think this has to be said:

This acknowledgement from Jolla came way too late.

The moment Jolla decided "not want to alarm people" and withhold information about the delay (reason for which, by the way, seems still not communicated) they became Like. Instead of Unlike.

That was, by the way, classic marketing speak - whether you like it or not - pseudonym for withholding unpleasant news in the hopes of being able to avoid them even when one knows it might not happen.

Just a suggestion: Don't forget your Movement. Jolla just did by deciding not to be honest with them in time. If you want to be Unlike, act like it. If you want to be Open, be open.

People understand issues and the sheer difficulty of starting up. They just don't like being misled - and omission like this is basically just that. People understand a business can't disclose every little thing, but clearly the big picture should have been disclosed in this case - and much earlier. Until December 10-11, many believed priority would be respected - and it was Jolla that had communicated priority would be respected.

Jolla could have told them different a week ago. Jolla chose not to.

If Jolla wants to get the sympathy of a startup, an open movement, it should communicate like one, not like a big old corporation trying their best to keep up appearances.

Last week, pre-orderers needed to be alarmed and Jolla chose not to be open about it. I hope this isn't the meaning of unlike they intended, because quite a few pre-orderers seem to unlike Jolla right now, if Finnish forums are anything to go by.

Markkyboy

Wow!, tension or what! Come on guys, Jolla is a start up company with only around 90+ staff. To bring a phone to launch in basically what has been 2 years, is remarkable, in fact, it's very impressive! Well done, Jolla!
I am also one who gave my €100 over some 6 months ago, as part of my faith in Jolla coming up with the goods, by using our cash to further the project.
Yes, Jolla are sometimes slow to reply, but in reality, it's not surprising, I'm glad they aren't spreading the team too thin by worrying about answering the non stop ream of questions they must get, especially given that people are not fond of reading previous comments to get answers. ('Sticky Threads' are a must in any forum).
We are all waiting, but if you can't wait, get on your bike, go to Finland, find the DNA store and buy one there and then and quit moaning.
90+ people are making this happen and all some can do is express dismay, go buy an Apple or Samsung product if you want 'it' now!
Or, make like a real enthusiast, a real fan and wait, along with the rest of us!
this is not a dig at anyone in particular, but if the cap fits........
Regards
Markkyboy

Webby

Markkyboy, I am happy that you are content with Jolla's progress. I do suggest, though, you pay the same courtesy to those whose experience has been - for whatever reason - different. Not all share your feelings and that's OK too.

Markkyboy said:
Yes, Jolla are sometimes slow to reply, but in reality, it's not surprising, I'm glad they aren't spreading the team too thin by worrying about answering the non stop ream of questions they must get, especially given that people are not fond of reading previous comments to get answers. ('Sticky Threads' are a must in any forum).

That is such a text-book strawman argument, though.

Very few people in my opinion have asked for Jolla to "spread their team thin" or answer a "non stop ream of questions". In reality, being open about the delay in time would have taken one person from Jolla ten minutes last week, one public statement about the problems and the possibility that it might cause delays - and saved a dozen Jolla people probably hours of damage control this week (not to mention saved much of the badwill).

Jolla didn't not let us know because they lacked the time to do so, according to cybette it was a conscious decision and now the reactions of people are the result of that conscious decision. Jolla chose not to be open, they didn't lack the time to be open. By deciding not to be open, Jolla most likely invited more questions and needed to answer them more, than had they been open in time.

The only upside I can see was for Jolla, had they been able to fix the issues in time, that might have had some benefit for their business and image. Maybe they tried to save some sales or save some face. But now that they've failed to fix the issues in time, instead what has been revealed - in the eyes of many people - a company "acting as usual", not being open to their earliest adopters. No matter what cybette says, it indeed seemed like a selfish decision by Jolla, not actually in the interest of their early adopters.

Many people are disappointed in Jolla, not because of the delays or issues, but because the lack of openness. It was unexpected.

You Markkyboy don't feel that way, and that's fine, but some do think it was the wrong call to make. In my experience, be it a company of 1 or 100 000, people usually respond to issues far better when you are honest about them in time. Curiously, they also bug you less when you do keep them updated beforehand. Hoping for the best until last and only then letting people know about a failure whose roots actually happened already long ago, is usually accepted far less - and personally I think that's fair.

rated · Post edited by JollaTides at 2013-12-12 15:32:26

Gah, double posted into oblivion! I'll try again but a short version:

1) It's a shame some folks are disappointed with the lack of communication, here's to hoping those that are disappointed with this will still be happy with the devices.
2) Glad to see the Finns can buy their Jollas from the store as it's awesome to think there'll be some home-grown xmas gifts for their residents. They deserve it after how Microsoft treated the once great Nokia
3) My order seems to be pretty much exactly in the timescale (in picking after 2.5 weeks, will likely be here within 4 - cracking stuff).

That's much shorter (and less eloquent) than my original post which vanished. Sorry about that.

EDIT: Here is the original post -

For what it's worth (and my opinion isn't worth a damn really). I pre-ordered the €100 option almost as soon as I noticed it (probably about a week after it became available), paid in full on November 25th and Jolla said that orders would be shipped within 3-4 weeks of ordering.

It's been 2.5 weeks and my order is currently "in picking", which suggests to me it'll probably be posted in the next few days, so pretty much dead on 3 weeks to posting and I'll probably (at a guess) get it here in the UK pretty much dead on 4 weeks after paying for the order. So basically exactly on time.

So on a personal note, I have zero complaints about anything, and Jolla certainly owe me no apologies.

I can understand a few people being upset that the Finnish market are able to wander into a shop and buy the phone before the pre-order customers get theirs, but in truth (and again, all my opinion, I'm not here to be crucified for disagreeing with others who are more than welcome to theirs) I have no issue with this. I'd LOVE to see Jolla become a dominant force in mobile phones, I'd LOVE to see Apple/Android knocked down a peg or two for their closed-systems and markets. Likewise I'd LOVE to walk down the street and see as many other people as I can using the Jolla because that shows that the big fish do not always get the worm, and the little guy can be successful if they put the work in (and holy cow have the Jolla team put the work in).

Now yes, I know we all live in a culture of "but I want it first" and I know Jolla even marketed on the basis of "I am the first one", but I'd rather see a million Jolla users all contributing and working together, all with the same device as me than I would knowing I've got something others haven't got. And after what Nokia have done to the Finnish mobile phone market (and let's face facts, one of the biggest things to come out of Finland was Nokia - so this must be a body-blow for the country) I think it's important the wonderful people in Finland have something home-grown to be proud of, so I'm pleased to see that this Christmas some Finns will be unwrapping a Jolla before tucking into their Turkey (as will the rest of us around the world who pre-ordered by the looks of it).

As before though, I do see why some folk are frustrated with the communication. Hell, everyone who has been involved/following Jolla for the last 2 years feels a part of the Jolla family (hence why I asked to admin the UK FB page - anything to help out a growing cause) so they feel by not being kept constantly updated it's like a family member keeping it a secret. And we all have feelings, some will take things one way, some the other. But I've got utmost faith that the Gents and Ladies at Jolla will do us all proud in the end, and we'll all probably be spamming the entire internet from our precious new phones soon enough.

That may have been too long, sorry all.....

blitzschlag · Post edited by blitzschlag at 2013-12-12 13:47:29

just received the mail Jolla should have sent last week

10 Minutes work to prevent a forseeable shitstorm.

There is a lesson to be learned. Hope you took the opportunity Jolla.

Dear brave pioneer,

If you have already received your tracking number or the actual device, congratulations and thank you for your support!

We had lots of unexpected technical challenges in the shipping process. Some of you have not yet received your tracking number or device and for that we are truly sorry. We know you believe in us and we are working hard to meet your expectations.

Watch your email for your tracking number.

Once again, please understand how sorry we are that what we worked on for the last two years is having difficulty to get into your eager hands. You will not be disappointed when you get your Jolla!

We have focused so much on getting the product ready and in your hands that our communication towards you hasn't been enough. We learned and we will improve this in the future.

Thank you for your patience.

Sincerely,
Jolla team

If you have any more questions or concerns please contact [email protected].

For more information, please see: https://jolla.zendesk.com/entries/31152238-Pre-order-Shipping-Info

JollaTides

@rated

I can reinstate your original comment if you like or add to your comment above ?

When you see what looks like 2 comments after you post, one is actually just a preview. It is confusing though - I'll try and see if there is a workaround. ;-)

rated

If you could reinstate the original I'd appreciate it (though I'm sure the eyes of others may not - it was rather long)....

JollaTides · Post edited by JollaTides at 2013-12-12 15:34:17

rated said:
If you could reinstate the original I'd appreciate it (though I'm sure the eyes of others may not - it was rather long)....

There you go. ;-)
Oh and by the way, totally agree there - nice comment...

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