All Those In Favour Of A Different Other Half: #WeDon’tWantQwerty
Further to a comment from Shane on the boards earlier, and having given all you tactile nuts a soap box to tell us why you want a QWERTY other half, in the interest of balance and getting the 2nd half of the story, we felt it only fair that we offer all of those who would prefer a different option for the other half to have their say.
So I’ve explained why I feel a hardware keyboard other half would make sense in many ways, but we are now in 2013 – is the QWERTY idea just a bit lame ? ie. Could/should we be thinking more outside the box and dreaming up some seriously innovative other half that maybe nobody has considered yet that would make the Jolla handset desirable to a whole new audience, on a whole new level ?
The sky is the theoretical limit with the other half but let’s try and be realistic here – have you compiled the perfect other half that would fulfil all your needs and requirements – let’s hear about it!
We now have 100% confirmation from Vesa Matti’s recent keynote that the other half will be powered by a mechanical connection that will allow the other half to get power from the main handset. We also know that the reverse is also true that the handset could, for instance, be powered by the other half so it is a 2-way affair in terms of power flow and communication.
This makes the other half a very exciting proposition and changes the game from the original assumptions of it potentially being a wireless/BT/NFC based communication method only.
With so many possible options/combinations out there, it is pointless for me to rattle off my own ideas, if you feel like commenting, please do, and the main purpose is to establish who here wants something different to a QWERTY other half – of course, realistic concept ideas are more than welcome!
So all those in favour of something different to a QWERTY other half say “YAY”.
EDIT: There’s nothing to say that we can’t have many different ‘other halves’ in the grand scheme of things, but we are just focussing on the concept of the first other half to see the light of day for now.
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YAY
– First, if I needed a physical keyboard, it would be an AZERTY as a French guy.
– Then, I don’t see the need for that, i would only make the device thicker and heavier with relatively no added-value as soon as the vrtual keyboard is efficient (and with a 4,5 inches screen, it should be..)
– Finally, I would see much more interest on providing an additional battery giving more autnomy or givig something special like a performant camera, pico-projector or whatever…The keyboard, Honestly, if you really need on, that would be for punctual usage and you can have a bluetooth one… A spare battery or a better camera, this is more a nomad usage and needed to be “included” wih the phone as a .. second half :)
I agree with the battery idea Bafftech. :-)
Aside from a HWKB, my ideal (hopefully realistic ) other half would be:
ROAD TRIP HALF = 2000mah battery; FM transmitter; HDMI out; 120gb extra storage
I’m french as well, and I’d take a QWERTY hwkb over no hwkb.
And yes, I’d take it even over the slight possibility of having AZERTY.
I’d be much easier/cheaper/whatever, from a logistic standpoint, to get a QWERTY hardware (with software adaptation) that will fit all, rather than a zillion different niche-localized hardware keyboards, more so on an emerging brand.
Rather than a “zillion” localized HWKB variants, for the languages spoken in Europe and America, as few as 9 … 14 variants of the Qwerty layout may be needed. See this comment: /2013/08/23/all-those-in-favour-of-a-different-other-half-wedontwantqwerty/comment-page-1/#comment-5708
If you insist on having a single “Universal Latin” HW Qwerty variant for practically all major languages which use the Latin alphabet, it is possible to make one, using about 3 or 4 labels on each letter key. Such a keyboard would work well for the English of the USA and UK, for the French of France and Quebec, for the German of Germany and Switzerland, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Polish, Czech, Danish, Norwegian, Swedish, Finnish, Estonian, Hungarian, …
Yes, that is possible, it requires only a bit of flexibility from the customers and chief designers who make decisions about the mechanical features of the phone. The locations of many keys would differ from those of full-sized Qwerty keys,or and a few combinations with the Sym or accent key may be needed for some “small languages”, but otherwise the text entry with the universal HWKB would not be diffent from the standard Qwerty layout or from a single-language variant of the HWKB of a smartphone.
Applying the same design principles it is possible to design a “Universal Cyrillic + Latin” keyboard which would be suitable for the languages which use the Cyrillic alphabet, and some languages which use Latin (English, German, French, Spanish, if not more).
Such universal layout designs would not exclude special single or double-language variants, which might be needed for people who insist on getting their Qwerty smartphone with only the key labels of their mother tongue.
Virtual keyboard is fine, if you have the fingers of a child or a girl – if you happen to have larger fingers, like say I do, you’ll need a real hardware keyboard with a tactile response.
Sorry but I don’t have child nor girl fingers and Im’ pretty ok with a virtual keyboard.
Moreover, if I had very large fingers, I would not count of a physical keyboard because those of smartphones have really narrow keys which are difficult to type on…
I just tried the Blackberry Q10 of a friend, it’s almost harder to type in with i than with the virtual kayboard in portrait mode…
A virtual keyboard, done correctly, usually has LARGER target areas than a physical keyboard because it takes an average of where your finger is. So, you have it the other way around.
Actually it is the shape of the keys rather than their size that matters. A common mistake made by many HWKB designers is to make the keys too flat. For easy text input, the keys of a HW Qwerty keyboard should be outbowing enough. The outbowing shape of the keys explains why the small Qwerty keyboards of Blackberry and Nokia Asha phones are acceptable for text entry.
Naturally also the size matters. Considering that the screen sizes have grown up to 4 … 6 inches, nowadays the Qwerty keys can be made large enough, especially if the HW Qwerty slides from the longer slide of the phone, like the HWKB of N900, E7 and N950.
Overall keyboard size seems to matter too — they can be too big.
As I’d mentioned in one of the qwerty threads, two phones I’ve used are the HTC Vision and the Samsung SGH-T699. Disliked the T699 in part due to a spongy and non-responsive space key. But also, even though my hands are normal size afaik, the keyboard on the T699 was just a bit too wide for my thumbs to easily reach the middle keys. Meanwhile the Vision’s keyboard is awesome and I’ve gone back to using it (with a CM-based android, so no clutter). Looking at specs, there’s not a lot of difference in the keyboard width between the two phones but it makes a significant difference in usability. I can only wonder what it would be like for someone with smaller hands. If & when Jolla produce a QWERTY, I hope they will take this into consideration. Possibly something like a mobile version of the keyboard split in MS’ “Natural” keyboard line.
Virtual KB is fine whenever it doesn’t block too much of the screen. For example when using Terminal in horizontal mode it just takes too much of screen space. Thats where HWKB is really at its best.
YAY
– in my opinion the best thing is that there is a possibility to attach new things to the phone as they come. If we need a keyboard or not, the time will tell (I have large fingers). I thin an additional battery is the first thing that comes to mind (will make the phone heavier, but I can take that).
As bafftech said and I agree different people need different hw keyboards. For example, I need a cyrillics one to type in messages and a latin qwerty one to work in a terminal, use browser etc. Will there be keyboards (if any) with different layouts? If not, can I laser engrave other layots upon keys by myself? If I can, will there be any software possibility to change current input layouts using the keyboard? The whole bunch of questions arise which makes me, a former pro-qwerty guy, realise, that if you really think about it, the hw qwerty is really a bloatware shortcomings of which are superior to its dignities.
Fair comment Passerby and I agree there are many more obstacles to consider when looking at the notion of a hwkb other half. ;-)
I guess that in due time Jolla Ltd will bring on the market HW Qwerty keyboards which support more than one language on the same keyboard. A reference: for the Russian market, practically all Nokia smartphones with HW Qwerty have double labels on the key: the Cyrillic letters for the Russian, Belorussian and Ukrainian languages, and the Latin letters for the English and some other languages.
With careful planning it is possible use the same HW variant of the Qwerty keyboard for several languages. For more than 8 languages: the 6 languages of Northern Europe, as well as for German and English, etc. This can be done with double labels on the Y and Z keys and on three keys on the right-hand side of the P and L keys; see my comments of
/2013/08/16/would-a-qwerty-other-half-really-float-your-boat-all-in-favour-say-aye/comment-page-1/#comment-5299
Why did I write “more than 8 languages … English, etc”? Because the English layout is quite suitable also for some other languages. For the Polish language for example. It requires some flexibility by the user, because on the keyboard you can’t find the Polish letters. But you can enter them with the assistance of the Sym key, in the same way as with the AltGr key on full-sized “Programmer’s Polish Qwerty” keyboards: Sym+L = Ł, Sym+A = Á, Sym+E = É, and so on.
To make the HW Qwerty keyboards suitable for this kind of multilingual use, a couple of extra keys will be needed. The most common mistake made by keyboard designers is to plan the HWKB first for the English language, with the minimum number of keys. Therefore, the HWKB is unsuitable for most other languages, or it is quite impractical to use (because of the high number of Sym+letter combinations, which are not done on full-sized Qwerty keyboards). This can be avoided by designing the HWKB first for the Russian, German or French language, for example. Modifying such a HWKB for the English language will then be very easy.
For me a bigger battery and/or an other half with a sligtly different design that doesn’t make the phone look like two halves (although that’s the idea) but one that would integrate with the main body. Qwerty other half for me isn’t necessary as long as the predictive dictionary is good, well implemented and is able to store my frequently used words and as well as correct order.
The one on Symbian Belle FP2 is simply amazing. I can write whole lines by simply tapping on the sugested words even without writing a single letter.
Agree with the other half not looking at a second layer. That would be just “perfect” if the second half was closing the device in a “one” global layer. But that’s just an aesthetics point of vew though.
And what about qwerty + something out of the box (in one).
For example t.o.h with fm transmitter, IR transmitter and a lens cover (with a spycam-like module). Or maybe an other half which could make the device a super-camera – like the full fetaured ones. But either way, these should be additional other halfs, not excluding the qwerty. regional variants (azerty,qwertz etc.) can be made too.
virtual keboard is not comparable to an hardware keyboard.
the touchscreen is useful but sometimes “the old style” wins!
if you have to write an sms or some chat session, virtual keyboard is good but for using in editing of a .doc .odt file or some ssh session… hardware keyboard is necessary.
Motorola droid 4 XT894 has a very,very good keyboard.
hw keyb is not indispensable but should be the first/most wanted other half !
A solar battery charger/power supply would be another obvious option for the other half, of course!
Working in a shellterminal with virtual keyboard is not realy fine because the screen is to small.
so i need a HW-keyboard.
If the otherhalf is connected by a mechanical connection, then it would be realy nice when the otherhalfs are stackable. the last can be a very thin plastikcover.
I like the idea to have “connection-otherhalf(s)” with USB, RJ45, RS232 GPIO what ever and the possibility to stack whatever i need in this moment.
Ehdottomasti YAY eli QWERTY on minulle hankintakriteeri
YAY
What about additional encrypted storage? You could use it to log-in when required by an app and then remove it afterwards. Or integrate a secured e-mail and chat client to store your messages.
Alternatively a kick-ass speaker to play your music very loud ;-) or an e-ink display to read e-books and magazines.
Check out ‘Yotaphone’. Runs Android, but has two displays. The normal capacitive front display and an E-Ink at the back to display stuff (psst, it’s got curved screens and uses swipes to go back and stuff, looks like someone’s taking inspiration from the N9)
Very interesting device Delirious. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I would definitely something similar as other half.
However the main reason why I am interested in Sailfish OS and Jolla is to have a valid European competitor in the smartphones market and my position became stronger since the revelations concerning the NSA despicable methods.
So my next smartphone will definitely not be an Android and no hardware specification will ever make me change my mind, not even Yotaphone.
True.
IMO, the Yotaphone sucks. It’s like buying a Nintendo DS (the Yotaphone) when you can buy a PS4 (Jolla!) :D
Sail on…
but we need a good capacity of the battery, or the phone’s life will be reduced
Well, if second halves would be stackable, like someone suggested, nothing stops people from piling an extra battery. If you buy a solar charger (like someone else suggested) you can remove the power-consuming part for as long as the battery gets full again.
can’t even bother to read all the other post so far, but this thread amounts to “all those against a blue back-cover” rise; the concept of the Other Half is so that every one can design or at least get the Other Half s/he wants.
idiotic.
We had a few people saying that this blog had become too pro-kb and this is a chance to provide non-kb folk with a chance to have their say.
Of course in an ideal world, we can hopefully all have our needs fulfilled but as I said at the end of the post, this is really to focus on the 1st other half to be released so that Jolla can prioritise.
My “perfect” (stackable) other half would be a qwerty hardware keyboard with a d-pad on it. It would have an integrated battery, a solar panel on it’s back, a camera button and hdmi output/input.
This would make the phone pretty heavy, but I think the benefits of this “perfect” other half outweigh this disadvantage.
What a great idea for an article, I wonder who thought of this ;)
Srsly though, good to open things up a bit more for a change.
How about a twin slot for two sim cards? I would also like to see a solar charger in/on the other half.
A QWERTY definitely turns the phone into a beast.
PS/PSP style controller/pad?! =D!
Absolutely QWERTY is something most people wants. But is it necessery?
After all, most of these guys who read these blogs and forums related to mobile industry and – especially – Jolla / N9, are a bit of a geeks. I’ve asked all my friends and relatives do they miss QWERTY keyboard. Most of them said “Yes, it could be fancy. Something different”.. When I asked “Okay. What about which one of these would you select as an alternative; more storage, bigger battery, better camera, …”. None of them didn’t choose QWERTY keyboard anymore.
Of course it is and will be something different nowadays because they aren’t being developed anymore. But to be realistic, I assume that e.g. 128Gb storage, 3000mAh batter, 20mpix camera, alternative speakers with high-quality microphone, etc. would be a better for large amount of people.
And since Jolla has said that “an artists could release their singles or even albums with the Other Half” I don’t think the techonology used in it would be expensive or hard to create. So therefore I personally wait manufacturers to start developing their Other Halves and help Jolla grow to be known and trusted company in a mobile industry.
One problem about the other halves is finding one that really serves your combined needs since it’ll be almost always more than one function at once.
Not very original but still:
-The smart keyboard: A second touchscreen, if possible with morphing tactile surface.
-The desk dock: 1-2 HDMI, 2-4 USB, LAN, a small clipped in remote control/laser pointer for presentations
-I’m in control: Powerful IR for universal remote control use at home
-Nontendo: small second touchscreen, nunchuck connector and all the control buttons and what else needed to be a DSi, a Wii Mote and a WII-U game pad and the chance to see someone on youtube flinging the Jolla into a flatscreen playing wii-tennis.
Slide out qwerty other half not possible in jolla, because it is not support landscape mode right now
There’s clearly preliminary support in the SDK.
YAY, i dont need physically keyboard anymore but i think that you should think encrypted storage “othet half” or encryption software(truecrypt) in the phone. In nowdays it could be great news if you can hide or encrypt your important information.
Your 4th idea would be killer! Combine those new sensors and extra juice to Sports Tracker and I would have my killer phone for mountain bicycling.
After reading this post & all the replies, some good ideas have been highlighted.
I’ve just returned from working 6mths in Kenya. I was in a reasonable developed region but a reliable power supply was always a problem. Here are some ideas that can be useful to all:
1. An extra battery wih integrated solar panel on the back for charging!
Reasoning- In Kenya I had to revert to an old nokia brick with a 6 day battery life more often than not as my smart phones battery life rarely lasted 2/3’s of the working day which is a real problem. One thing Africa has in abundance is sunshine so an other half 3000mah with a solar backside you’d be on to a winner with heavy users & parts of the world where plug sockets aren’t always available.
2. Dial sim other half which could be combined in the one above or on its own with more memory storage & connectivity options such as usb 3 etc.
3. A music focused other half which could include a speaker in the same vein as “The Mighty Dwarf”, a DAC / ADC Amp and a stupendous 3.5mm out for Apple beating sound quality.
4. An other half for the outdoor enthusiast which has enhanced GPS, thermometer, barometer, altitometer and extra battery muscle etc which could be designed to encased the phone in an Otter Box type cover to make it suited for its use. That is the one I’d buy!
As for the qwerty attachment, that time has gone, I still use one but this was all typed on a touch screen and this works just fine.
I’ll really like to view your ideas as a real 2nd half. The last one would definitely make me buy a jolla phone without thinking much more …
Indeed Korem, look at all the smart phone users out there walking round with £500+ phones in their hands who drop them!
I’ve just taken over my wifes old Samsung S2 as my Nokia E72-1 had become too unreliable after 4 years of hard use. The first thing I did was encase it in a leather flip case as on day two of ownership I dropped it. Very fortunately for me it landed on the back of the top edge so no broken screen however it now has a nice deep scratch on the top.
When my Jolla arrives the first thing I will do is buy a good tough to provide all round cover. I don’t want to have to cover it up but a new phone is way to expensive & way to easy to damage.
I hope Jolla are thinking about accessories as I will not be the only one who wants to protect his new phone.
:-)
Hello hello!
Could there be an other half that contains a virtual currency wallet? It could contain for example a Bitcoin wallet. That would be a light other half that can be used to store and to carry virtual currencies and the proper half would then access it for doing payments. When used for storing larger amounts, it can be kept at safe and only used for transferring smaller sums into the proper half’s memory. From the proper half’s memory the currency can be used for making payments both virtually in the internet services and manually on cashier devices …which is still rather virtual (:
That’s of course a simple one to do. As complicated as a usb stick. Could there be some additional security features though if the other half contains, let’s say, a Bitcoin wallet?
I’d like confirmation that the many flavours and variants of the “other half” will be compatible with Jolla II, III etc. I’d be keen to ‘collect’ whatever is developed if and only if I had some reasonable certainty that they’ll keep working beyond the life of Jolla I.
A sound module (amp & speaker)
An outdoor module (GPS, barometer etc.)
An office module – built in LibreOffice and storage with monitor connectivity? This would justify a HWKB (aka ubuntu edge)
A camera control module (do a deal with say Nikon/Canon to provide full camera functionality?)
Radio Control module?
The list is endless but I hope it’s more than a branded (mufc, hello kitty, ikea…) piece of plastic for fans to attach…)
The outdoor module sounds nice, but I cant think about serious sportsmen carrying a smartphone in the middle of nowhere…
But then Ant+ would be nice.
Micro Four Thirds camera half for top quality yet compact photo video.
an extra battery with capability to charge other devices would be useful. also, hdmi (or micro-hdmi) output, fm-transmitter, a better camera, wireless charging, multi-channel sound card for music recording… ir-module? to use the phone as a universal tv/etc. remote.
Competitors are focusing on cameras so… This Sony approach would be the perfect other half, but with a good fixed lens (smaller unit and better f-value, let’s say something like 35mm f/2.2 or better), with a dedicated camera button, flash and maybe some more battery juice too, just a little bit…
http://photorumors.com/2013/08/12/those-are-the-sony-dsc-qx10-and-dsc-qx100-lens-camera-modules-for-smart-phones/
How about instead of a Hardware keyboard we get a 2nd slide out screen that can be modified to display a keyboard in any language or can display other info, or it could act the same as a 2nd monitor on a pc with extra info displayed.
If power is an issue it could always be an e-ink display with touch and could display basic info when needed.
Swells I love this idea – it’s been mentioned before and I think it’s great. Just think, with little effort, many language variations can be designed and even a gamepad could easily be incorporated.
one of the things I like about the samsung galaxy note[there is almost nothing i like about it other than speed, size and] is the usage of pen[stylus].
I like writing with pen, it helps me think in a different way to thinking with keyboard.
I thought it would be great if there is an other half acting as a projector of something likeinfrared or something on a hard flat surface and then with a special pan on that infrared area one can write and this will be translated into typed input in the device.
not qwerty or nothing. good old handwriting.
I maintain and handle my server with my N900 over ssh. Using a touch keyboard when writing shell commands is just ridiculous, tedious and awkward.
Besides, if you use touch and want to move the cursor when something is typed wrong or you want to inserts something in front, one better has really tiny fingers for the precision. At least when it comes to android. Touch simply doesn’t work for some things.
At least I write mails and SMS much slower with touch, even if I have one of those “smart” virtual touch keyboards. Screen real estate suffers badly too.
Then you of course have the feeling as well, it feels just like what it is: Not real, virtual.
The device feels better and sits much better in the hands when it carries a physical keyboard. The touch ones are much easier to drop and the hands cramp around the edges of the device. Maybe aliens from a different planet with different physics like it, I’m an earthling and I despise it.
Is that enough for arguments? Don’t come and say it’s 2013 when the text input methods these days is something of just a stupid trend and should have died out shortly after arriving, like five years ago or so. Technology development, trends and the general acceptance of it has gone sour before and so it has again with the virtual touch keyboards. People buy and swallow whatever comes out of the factories, it gets viral and soon people are sitting like dumb monkeys using technology that is more adapted for being aesthetic rather than practical. Although I think that a physical keyboard also looks nicer.
The only positive thing with virtual touch keyboard is that it is a different technology, but it isn’t actually useful other than public kiosk applications and for clicking huge icons. Text? Meh!
No, you’re completely wrong, it’s not needed at all, you fall into a very marginal category of usage models. In fact, I’d go as far as saying the very 1st Other Half doesn’t ‘have” to be a physical qwerty, there’s many other great options.
Although my personal preference would be a physical qwerty…
I agree with Larswad. I am waiting for Jolla to realese a HWKB. When they do I will buy that Jolla phone.
I quote Tomi T. Ahonen (http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2013/08/ballmer-aftermath-part-2-impact-to-nokia-especially-lumia-running-windows-phone.html)
”There has not to this date been a QWERTY variant to the Lumia series even as more than a third of Nokia smartphone buyers in 2010 bought a QWERTY version such as most of the E-Series, and various youth smarpthones”.
So there is a big market for physical QWERTY.
I want a fully touch sensitive back panel, so I can hold the phone facing me, and type on the back, meaning I can remote operate non-phone software that responds in real time without getting in my own face.
(Actually I really really want a keyboard like the Droid 4, but the world appears to have gone insane, so I’ll settle for this instead)
Maybe with some piezoelectrics you can make it have texture to guide the fingers, but an overlay may be just as effective.
*Googles* .. Oh hell, it’s already in a patent war. ARGH.
http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/tktk-google-backside-touch-control-patent/
A few good ideas for a non-keyboard otherhalf:
– A gamepad
– An external battery
– An external hard drive
– A set of USB ports to plug other accessories (including… wait for it… a full-sized keyboard!)
I would like to use my jollaphone without the other half, a low wight smartphone, and very slim, and then, when I needed som extra stuff, then connect the other half to it!
#1 High quality speakers would be indeed cool for me
#2 More space for larger battery
#3 Tougher Other Half (aluminium maybe for durability)
n900 qwerty + good camera. That’s all I need from the other half.
You won’t get that in 1x other half, maybe 2x, if were lucky, if Jolla/Sailfish survives long enough.
How about an emergency locator beacon? – you can get them built into watches, but having it built into a phone could be a better option for some people
Numerous Other Halves I would like to see:
A high fidelity music/media player with huge storage, 160g + for large music files. Give it a hi-fi DAC and a headphone amp, no speakers please, never heard a good one on a phone for playing audiophile anyway;
An autonomous GPS device, again with large storage for large files. Add decent and calibrate-able sensors for local physical info;
An IR and RF remote for household hardware, plus some output ports for the same;
A remote sensor module, for audio, video, motion, GPS, etc;
And of course, and probably the first choice, a landscape hw keyboard. Better yet, one that mounts as an extension, not a slider, that makes the phone into a long household device. Even the remote could be configured like this, less fumbling in the home and convertable portability in the field.
PS: A nice cigarette lighter would come in handy.
my ideas for other half versions, aside form hwkb:
– multi memory card reader + USB (host) ports + A/V out
– “no other half” to have a thin and light device
– battery other half
– camera module (sony launched smart lenses qx100, qx10) or something like a real camera with second half compatible holes to mount to jolla, to transform the phone to something like the galaxy zoom